Temple Square and Why I'm not a Mormon - Temple Square Area - Salt Lake City, Utah - September 7th, 2014

       It's been a while since I've explored my reasons for not believing in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and why I don't think I could ever rejoin. The last post I did that explored my story was this one here: http://thereligiousoutsider.blogspot.com/2011/05/mormonism-and-me-leaving-organized.html, and a lot of still stands though I didn't really go into the details behind the why and what I meant by behind certain things like the racism and sexism and the historicity issues. 

     With those post I don't mean to offend, but I'm not going to lie. This was my first time going and exploring Temple Square since I was a little kid and it was here that really captured a lot of the pros and cons of the Mormon Faith for me. Obviously the cons outweigh or else I'd be a member, so I'll tell about my experiences of revisiting the Mormon Mecca here. 

    My friend lives right next to Temple Square and after visiting the Greek Festival I decided coming here would be a good way to both see how the Church tells it's own story and through that illustrate my reasons for why I don't believe in it. Much like the articles posted around Trinity Orthodox Cathedral, Temple Square is the Thesis Statement of the Mormon Church that explores how it sees itself. 

     The first place we reached was the home of Brigham Young, this is a guy who had some similar problems to Joseph Smith as he took a bunch of wives (some of whom already had husbands in Joseph Smith's case or were young (14 or younger) like Aisha and Muhammad) and believed it was his right because he was a Prophet to do so. He was pretty racist towards African and Native Americans too.

        

     After Brigham Young's home we reached the area where the Church Office is and the Joseph Smith memorial building. The area was beautiful, but the the memorial building was closed on Sunday. 

       One very positive thing about this area is how green it is. There are lots of flowers and trees and it really is a beautiful area, there is another side to this too, which I'll get into further down. The area itself reminded me of a greener Vatican actually, in more than a few ways. Came here with my cousin when I first moved here and I do love how pristine and beautiful the location is. 

     The next place we visited was the North Temple Visitor Center. It was here it had the brief history of the 40 years it took to build the Temple and showed a small miniature house of it too. One of the reasons I couldn't be a Mormon is actually the existence of the Temple, much like how non-Muslims aren't allowed in Mecca, non-Mormons aren't allowed in the Temple and for me it is difficult a God would be that exclusive. More often than not exclusivity leads to isolation of perspective which makes it difficult to see where others may be coming from because if you have the exclusive truth than everyone else must be wrong...and when it comes to religion that claim is more often than not something based on faith which can't be proven with evidence by it's very nature.  

       After we found a video of some of the current President/Prophet's talks and one of the ones we listened was great until it got into theology. It basically covered everyday things that are important, like honesty and integrity. It was once the Bible and Book of Mormon were quoted that it felt like a non-sequitur argument. Also the Family Proclamation on the wall was a pretty big "Only Certain Families are Welcome" thing as it excludes Gay families and the sheer diversity of families from re-marriages and divorces, poly, and single parents raising children or existing as a couple. This is sad as there is so much beauty that can exist in these relationships and that it matters less the type of family it is and more the character of a family. A couple being a straight couple does not make them good, they could be abusive or have any other types of problems. Just because people can have kids, does not make them good parents. I hope someday this proclamation can be expanded to include all families and have more focus on character rather than family make-up as this proclamation is part of what fed the homophobia against LGBTQ folks in the U.S. and lead to the funding against Gay Marriage in California and elsewhere in the U.S.A. 

     The other issue I have is tied to not seeing any evidence on any person being able to have otherworldly powers or predict the future. Because of this I don't believe in the existence of prophets in any religion, though certainly open to the possibility. 

      Afterwords we visited The Assembly Hall which is a place for non-members to come and worship, I am glad this place exists as it is one of the more areas of simple beauty on Temple Square and it isn't big or large like most of the other buildings on the premise...and it is an area that welcomes all, which is good, even if it doesn't have the same significance of the Temple. The inside is simple with an organ, wooden seats with the most ornate thing being granite pillars inside the Hall. 

   

      Our next stop was the Church History Museum. First I'll go into the good, it showed the struggle of a lot of the immigrants who came across the plains and oceans to get to Utah for religious freedom. What it doesn't say though is how there were people already there. The natives are only mentioned as Lamanites the 13th Tribe of Israel (historically inaccurate, Native American's don't have any Jewish genes) and how Jesus came and preached to them. This is shown later on the floor on the top level where Joseph Smith is shown preaching to the natives. It has an imperialistic feel to it as the warrior natives look frightened as Smith and another preach, this was disturbing on a lot of levels because it showed the racism and justification of both Manifest Destiny (Zion is ours on this Land) and Imperialism (educating the sinful natives and saving them from the wrongs committed by their ancestors). The issue of polygamy (saying it's right and God wants it and after saying it's wrong and God doesn't want it), racism (Black's exclusion from the Priesthood for a long time) or the Mountain Meadows Massacre (Mormon Settlers targeting other Settlers and attempting to frame the Native Americans in the process) are never addressed either, it's a very idealized picture that does a disservice to the First People's of Utah and the complex history of the Church (the darker sides are never dealt with). The Vatican was very similar in regards to not showing the darker side of the Catholic Church's history which I wish more religions did...confessing the problems of your past up front does solve some issues as it shows integrity and with that a possible willingness to learn from the lessons from those mistakes.  

    I think one interpretation we may see and might currently exist among some believers of the Book of Mormon is it all being mythology and symbolic. Similar to the Old Testament and more fantastical events of the New Testament. If this catches on it could be a step in the right direction in relation to the Native Americans here and the actual history of this place. 

      The next place we went to were the Church grounds, which are beautiful and right near is a covered patio with chairs, a great area for reading. Right next to it would be part of what I see as the problem both in the Vatican and other Churches too. The homeless are kept out. 

    If you look across from Temple Square you see City Creek, where the church invested a lot of it's money. Just outside the gates is a homeless man. I heard from my friend the Church does provide a service where homeless can work for lodging and food, but I haven't seen it (though I know individual members who do care for the poor and other groups in need). Everywhere in the city I've seen the poor being cared for by religious organization are the Catholics (the area near Cathedral of the Madeline, Catholic Community Service in Old Greek Town and The Virgin of Guadalupe Church in the poor area of Salt Lake City). I haven't seen any of that, looking out the door I saw tons of money that was poured into City Creek. The Orthodox Church had businesses endorsing an event, but the Church didn't own any of the businesses. The Mormon Church owns City Creek, which is good publicity, but all one has to do is see how the poor are being kept out for image and how much money was poured into a mall, also in regards to the Trinity Orthodox Church visit, I saw no charities or food banks in regards to the poor in Utah, it was more more focused on self and not self in relation to the outside, which for me is a problem if religion is supposed to make one better. 

     I'm sure the Church provides services, but I haven't seen them in the areas that need it the most and Temple Square feels less welcome to all when a homeless man has to beg outside the gates...it kind of promotes the exclusivity problem. 

     If you've been reading the blog you know where I stand on equality of leadership in any organization (a person's sex should not bar them from leadership positions in any hierarchy) and the matter of Gay Rights. These are the biggest reasons beyond my agnosticism of the Supernatural and the historicity of the Book of Mormon and Bible for why I could not become a Mormon. I do have hope that these things will be dealt with as time passes, as in the case of Gay Rights especially there are consequences, there are many homeless gay youth on the streets because of how they have been rejected by their families because of their sexual orientation. There are people and families excluded for who they are. How does that make any sense in reference to a loving higher power? This is hardly just a problem in Mormonism, my biggest issues are pretty universal in most conservative religious communities, but this was my visit to the Temple Square area and visit the locations and my chance to explore it in regards to Mormonism first hand.

Native American Genetic Ancestry: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-brief/2014/02/12/earliest-american-genome-proves-siberian-origins-for-native-peoples/

Joseph Smith: http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/

Brigham Young: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57241071-78/church-lds-says-mormon.html.csp

Mormon Church and Marriage Equality: http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB122186063716658279

The Salt Lake City Greek Festival - Trinity Orthodox Church - Salt Lake City, UT - September 7th, 2014

    

 Since moving to Utah I have not attended any festivals until today, and it was worth it. I'm doing this for the religious blog both because of what my friend I discussed while here and the fact that it has been the Trinity Orthodox Cathedral Community that has been hosting these events for over 30 years. Suffice to say much like religion, the experience was mixed. 

     I arrived at the event earlier than my friend and grabbed food, while here I had the chance to observe what was going on during the event. There tons of dance troupes that were on a stage in the large tent that hosted most of the folks there and many of them were named after Greek Gods (Dionysus Dance troupe for example). This is where I saw for a lot of the Church community history and legends are just as important as the faith from the Middle East (Christianity) that most of Greece is now. 

   I also saw how many different vendors had taken hold which after hearing a conversation between two old men has been at least somewhat of a controversy between some members of the group. Which is understandable, community is created and the event brings in lots of money for the local Greek Families and the Church but it also brings a corporate sell out feel when you have Bud Light stands and commercials right next to a Church and are selling jewelry in items when that was what pissed Jesus off in the New Testament with the money changers in the Church. So I get both sides on this debate. 

     Next I ran into the monument that was made in honor of sixteen Greek migrants who had died in their helping build the railroad through Utah, which was part of what brought many of the first immigrants here to Salt Lake City. I'd see more of this history in the Church's Hellenistic Museum after going through Trinity Cathedral.

     Trinity Orthodox Cathedral is a beautiful place, and there a lot of members there to answer questions, which I didn't really have since there were so many papers around that gave the perspective of the Church. For one I saw the "One True Church"^tm that pervades most religious communities as there was a flyer that showed how the One True Holy Apostolic Church has a straight line that doesn't branch through the Orthodox Church, but that things branched and kept on branching with the Roman Catholic Church into the reformation showing that they didn't have the right idea. I always find this a bit disturbing and intriguing since the events of the Bible are so sketchy historically that I don't see how the tradition can justify itself except through making and believing the claim, regardless of the questionable circumstances and events of the life Jesus and the early Church.  I talked about this with my friend when she arrived at the event and we grabbed coffee in the cafe that had been created next to the Church and Church Museum. 

     It was here we discussed religious fanaticism, our agnosticism on the supernatural and are questioning of organized religion. This quote by Carlin pretty accurately discussed our problems of people in groups which (looking at news and the communities we interact with) show how religion tends to make this problem worse. 

“The larger the group, the more toxic, the more of your beauty as an individual you have to surrender for the sake of group thought. And when you suspend your individual beauty you also give up a lot of your humanity. You will do things in the name of a group that you would never do on your own. Injuring, hurting, killing, drinking are all part of it, because you've lost your identity, because you now owe your allegiance to this thing that's bigger than you are and that controls you.”

― George Carlin, Last Words

   After the festival we went to Temple Square and the locations there (and the Mormon Church History Museum) which will be a post for another day...since that one has much more to cover than this one and goes into more detail on why I left the Mormon Church and would find it pretty impossible to rejoin.  

The Interfaith Amigos - Faith United Methodist Church - Sammamish, WA - October 22nd, 2012

     It's been a while since I've done a faith visit. Partially due to job searching (which has now been resolved) and partially from ambivalence and wondering where to go next...while not wanting to do a repeat visit to a faith community. Well today I would learn a little bit about this sect of Methodism as well as see some old mentors of mine and become re-acquainted with Interfaith. A part of myself which I don't think will ever go away.

     The Interfaith event that brought me to my first Methodist Church was the Interfaith Amigos. They are a rabbi (Ted Falcon), pastor (Don Mackenzie) and sheikh (Jamal Rahman) who became friends after 9/11 and sought to use their mystic perspectives within their faiths to try and bridge the divide between different religions, but specifically the major 3 that came from Abraham. Rabbi Ted and Sheikh Jamal have been mentors to me in regards to Interfaith and their first book, "Getting to the Heart of Interfaith" was one of the major books I used for my Senior Thesis on how to promote successful interfaith between the 3 major religions from Abraham.

http://thereligiousoutsider.blogspot.com/2011/04/children-of-abraham-interfaith-workshop.html

   Before the event started I talked to Jamal and Ted for a while before running into someone who I will talk later about (future post later).

    The event was built around their second book they put out, "Religion Gone Astray," I brought the first book that I already owned and used for my Thesis for the book signing afterword. It started out with the three talking about 9/11 brought them together and what they believe is the core of each faith. For Judaism "Oneness" for Christianity "Unconditional Love" and for Islam "Compassion." They talked about this and also tackled the problems within their faiths such as the history of their faiths in regards to the rights of women, gays and the Arab-Israeli conflict. The big thing on homosexuality and the Arab-Israeli conflict that were mentioned is how those who hate do not know people of other religions or the group they are hating and how in their personal and experiences they've had together have seen on the grassroots level those divides going away with getting to know "the other," with the end goal of helping others to get rid of the exclusivity within faiths to having the Truth, since so much conflict comes from that.
    They demonstrated this with quoting the most exclusive passages from their scriptures and then interpreted them to give them new meaning or what they believe the original meaning was.

  Example, "I am the way the truth and the light, no one can come to the father except through me." To mean God is the way the truth and the light, no one can come to God except through God. Since "I am" is the name of God in the Old testament.

      From my experience I do have some issue with this but that's mostly due to the fact that there is no way to know if this or the traditional Trinitarian interpretation is correct. Which is why I am so agnostic when it comes to religion.

     Seeing them being upfront about the human rights issues within each of their faiths, as well as ways to bring out the best in each of their faiths reminded me of why I'd been drawn to interfaith in the first place. They stated early on where the major problems at interfaith events were when people talked about their similarities and only that, or people talked about their differences...in both cases it missed the personal reasons for why a person is a member of any faith in the first place and moves it away from the interaction at hand to the abstract...which tends to kill connection in religious dialogue. The personal is where the connection happens and where there is the possibility for change.

http://www.google.com/imgres?num=10&hl=en&biw=1366&bih=653&tbm=isch&tbnid=eWaYoTxTaKC0NM:&imgrefurl=http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Interfaith-Amigos-visit-Stamford-680339.php&docid=rwlBZIBi4JePmM&imgurl=http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/01/24/66/347571/3/628x471.jpg&w=628&h=372&ei=a36NUPedC8TJiwKbmIDIAQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=330&vpy=166&dur=782&hovh=173&hovw=292&tx=242&ty=87&sig=107060927398958671216&page=2&tbnh=146&tbnw=217&start=17&ndsp=31&ved=1t:429,r:10,s:20,i:167

   After they sang there theme song, "It's all one and I am as I am." In Arabic, Hebrew and English their dialogue ended and it was opened up to questions. Most of the questions were understandably for Jamal since right now Islam does have the most problems related to the issues that were discussed. He did a good job answering the questions, as they all did. For all it was showing how they saw the core teaching relating to the context and history of the passages or how their religion has gone astray on human rights and their personal experiences with it.

  It ended with coffee, treats and a book signing and I had the pleasure of talking to a retired Methodist pastor and the pastor of the Church, before and after the event...which will be a story for another a day.

 

Saint Joseph's Catholic Church - Salem, Oregon - August 26th, 2012

   What does it mean to be a member of a faith group? Is it okay to question and to be agnostic within a faith tradition? I'm curious to hear your thoughts on it. I'll explain my own point of view and what happened at the service in the following post.

    The service was unquestioning of dogma. Essentially. "If you don't believe with the policies of the papacy, then get out."

    The service itself was quite beautiful, though that undercurrent of fear didn't add to the connection with anything higher, even with the church pulling out all the stops. From bell ringing during the Eucharist, large candle sticks, an ethereal choir and good music. Which I think showed for me that creative/mystic experiences can't always be simply created.

    I wasn't there for the first reading, but the second reading tied into the theme of obedience. Now I can understand this theme but I think it ties into trust. A trust that I don't feel many religious figures (and other people) have truly earned. It can lead to problems too, such as Cardinal Ratzinger order that abuse should not be reported until 18 years after and should only be dealt with in house (much like how Penn State for years "dealt with it" in House).
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/now-pope-linked-to-child-abuse-coverup-2098327.html

    The Church didn't deal with the sex abuse cover up until long after, and it's only been recently that we've been seeing secular justice applied to these people who hid these atrocities...and even then, the now Pope Benedict will never be held accountable unless those who are members speak up.

    We see this happening in the Orthodox Jewish communities too in regards to abuse and in other communities that try to cut themselves off from "The World" and in turn claim to be above it, even when their mistakes question the validity of that claim of being God's chosen or being guided by something more than any other group or person on Earth.

     The Decon who was giving the service seemed completely unaware or in denial over this point. Simply saying that, "I know we've made mistakes," while at the same time attacking those who question. This is a mentality that does nothing for organizational growth.

    Religion by its very nature is based in uncertainty. Whether it's dealing with God, the Prophets, Angels, Demons, the soul and the supernatural...these are claims that are in the end based on faith. They can't be proven or falsified. It is for this reason that I find myself drawn to the attempt at ethics religion does...as well as to the stories and myths...some of which are amazing tools for teaching and growing. The practical application and "Living the best you can be," within your faith tradition or no faith tradition is what I hope for. One should live by the higher truth of the Good/virtue relating to the self and to others.

    I have some issues with the Dalai Lama that I'll bring up in another post, but he does have a quote I believe is relevant to my current beliefs about religion,

  "Whatever that makes you more compassionate, more sensible, more detached, more loving, more humanitarian, more responsible, more ethical. The religion that would that for you is the best religion. I am not interested my friend, about your religion or if you are religious or not. What really is important to me is your behavior in front of your peers, family, work, community, and in front of the world. Remember, the universe is the echo of our actions and our thoughts." 

     How in interpret the Universe bit at the end is karma, which is the fact that our actions have consequences. What we do and how we treat people matters. It is this simple truth that so often we miss in whatever stories we pick up and believe about ourselves and others.