Temple Square and Why I'm not a Mormon - Temple Square Area - Salt Lake City, Utah - September 7th, 2014

       It's been a while since I've explored my reasons for not believing in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and why I don't think I could ever rejoin. The last post I did that explored my story was this one here: http://thereligiousoutsider.blogspot.com/2011/05/mormonism-and-me-leaving-organized.html, and a lot of still stands though I didn't really go into the details behind the why and what I meant by behind certain things like the racism and sexism and the historicity issues. 

     With those post I don't mean to offend, but I'm not going to lie. This was my first time going and exploring Temple Square since I was a little kid and it was here that really captured a lot of the pros and cons of the Mormon Faith for me. Obviously the cons outweigh or else I'd be a member, so I'll tell about my experiences of revisiting the Mormon Mecca here. 

    My friend lives right next to Temple Square and after visiting the Greek Festival I decided coming here would be a good way to both see how the Church tells it's own story and through that illustrate my reasons for why I don't believe in it. Much like the articles posted around Trinity Orthodox Cathedral, Temple Square is the Thesis Statement of the Mormon Church that explores how it sees itself. 

     The first place we reached was the home of Brigham Young, this is a guy who had some similar problems to Joseph Smith as he took a bunch of wives (some of whom already had husbands in Joseph Smith's case or were young (14 or younger) like Aisha and Muhammad) and believed it was his right because he was a Prophet to do so. He was pretty racist towards African and Native Americans too.

        

     After Brigham Young's home we reached the area where the Church Office is and the Joseph Smith memorial building. The area was beautiful, but the the memorial building was closed on Sunday. 

       One very positive thing about this area is how green it is. There are lots of flowers and trees and it really is a beautiful area, there is another side to this too, which I'll get into further down. The area itself reminded me of a greener Vatican actually, in more than a few ways. Came here with my cousin when I first moved here and I do love how pristine and beautiful the location is. 

     The next place we visited was the North Temple Visitor Center. It was here it had the brief history of the 40 years it took to build the Temple and showed a small miniature house of it too. One of the reasons I couldn't be a Mormon is actually the existence of the Temple, much like how non-Muslims aren't allowed in Mecca, non-Mormons aren't allowed in the Temple and for me it is difficult a God would be that exclusive. More often than not exclusivity leads to isolation of perspective which makes it difficult to see where others may be coming from because if you have the exclusive truth than everyone else must be wrong...and when it comes to religion that claim is more often than not something based on faith which can't be proven with evidence by it's very nature.  

       After we found a video of some of the current President/Prophet's talks and one of the ones we listened was great until it got into theology. It basically covered everyday things that are important, like honesty and integrity. It was once the Bible and Book of Mormon were quoted that it felt like a non-sequitur argument. Also the Family Proclamation on the wall was a pretty big "Only Certain Families are Welcome" thing as it excludes Gay families and the sheer diversity of families from re-marriages and divorces, poly, and single parents raising children or existing as a couple. This is sad as there is so much beauty that can exist in these relationships and that it matters less the type of family it is and more the character of a family. A couple being a straight couple does not make them good, they could be abusive or have any other types of problems. Just because people can have kids, does not make them good parents. I hope someday this proclamation can be expanded to include all families and have more focus on character rather than family make-up as this proclamation is part of what fed the homophobia against LGBTQ folks in the U.S. and lead to the funding against Gay Marriage in California and elsewhere in the U.S.A. 

     The other issue I have is tied to not seeing any evidence on any person being able to have otherworldly powers or predict the future. Because of this I don't believe in the existence of prophets in any religion, though certainly open to the possibility. 

      Afterwords we visited The Assembly Hall which is a place for non-members to come and worship, I am glad this place exists as it is one of the more areas of simple beauty on Temple Square and it isn't big or large like most of the other buildings on the premise...and it is an area that welcomes all, which is good, even if it doesn't have the same significance of the Temple. The inside is simple with an organ, wooden seats with the most ornate thing being granite pillars inside the Hall. 

   

      Our next stop was the Church History Museum. First I'll go into the good, it showed the struggle of a lot of the immigrants who came across the plains and oceans to get to Utah for religious freedom. What it doesn't say though is how there were people already there. The natives are only mentioned as Lamanites the 13th Tribe of Israel (historically inaccurate, Native American's don't have any Jewish genes) and how Jesus came and preached to them. This is shown later on the floor on the top level where Joseph Smith is shown preaching to the natives. It has an imperialistic feel to it as the warrior natives look frightened as Smith and another preach, this was disturbing on a lot of levels because it showed the racism and justification of both Manifest Destiny (Zion is ours on this Land) and Imperialism (educating the sinful natives and saving them from the wrongs committed by their ancestors). The issue of polygamy (saying it's right and God wants it and after saying it's wrong and God doesn't want it), racism (Black's exclusion from the Priesthood for a long time) or the Mountain Meadows Massacre (Mormon Settlers targeting other Settlers and attempting to frame the Native Americans in the process) are never addressed either, it's a very idealized picture that does a disservice to the First People's of Utah and the complex history of the Church (the darker sides are never dealt with). The Vatican was very similar in regards to not showing the darker side of the Catholic Church's history which I wish more religions did...confessing the problems of your past up front does solve some issues as it shows integrity and with that a possible willingness to learn from the lessons from those mistakes.  

    I think one interpretation we may see and might currently exist among some believers of the Book of Mormon is it all being mythology and symbolic. Similar to the Old Testament and more fantastical events of the New Testament. If this catches on it could be a step in the right direction in relation to the Native Americans here and the actual history of this place. 

      The next place we went to were the Church grounds, which are beautiful and right near is a covered patio with chairs, a great area for reading. Right next to it would be part of what I see as the problem both in the Vatican and other Churches too. The homeless are kept out. 

    If you look across from Temple Square you see City Creek, where the church invested a lot of it's money. Just outside the gates is a homeless man. I heard from my friend the Church does provide a service where homeless can work for lodging and food, but I haven't seen it (though I know individual members who do care for the poor and other groups in need). Everywhere in the city I've seen the poor being cared for by religious organization are the Catholics (the area near Cathedral of the Madeline, Catholic Community Service in Old Greek Town and The Virgin of Guadalupe Church in the poor area of Salt Lake City). I haven't seen any of that, looking out the door I saw tons of money that was poured into City Creek. The Orthodox Church had businesses endorsing an event, but the Church didn't own any of the businesses. The Mormon Church owns City Creek, which is good publicity, but all one has to do is see how the poor are being kept out for image and how much money was poured into a mall, also in regards to the Trinity Orthodox Church visit, I saw no charities or food banks in regards to the poor in Utah, it was more more focused on self and not self in relation to the outside, which for me is a problem if religion is supposed to make one better. 

     I'm sure the Church provides services, but I haven't seen them in the areas that need it the most and Temple Square feels less welcome to all when a homeless man has to beg outside the gates...it kind of promotes the exclusivity problem. 

     If you've been reading the blog you know where I stand on equality of leadership in any organization (a person's sex should not bar them from leadership positions in any hierarchy) and the matter of Gay Rights. These are the biggest reasons beyond my agnosticism of the Supernatural and the historicity of the Book of Mormon and Bible for why I could not become a Mormon. I do have hope that these things will be dealt with as time passes, as in the case of Gay Rights especially there are consequences, there are many homeless gay youth on the streets because of how they have been rejected by their families because of their sexual orientation. There are people and families excluded for who they are. How does that make any sense in reference to a loving higher power? This is hardly just a problem in Mormonism, my biggest issues are pretty universal in most conservative religious communities, but this was my visit to the Temple Square area and visit the locations and my chance to explore it in regards to Mormonism first hand.

Native American Genetic Ancestry: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-brief/2014/02/12/earliest-american-genome-proves-siberian-origins-for-native-peoples/

Joseph Smith: http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/

Brigham Young: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57241071-78/church-lds-says-mormon.html.csp

Mormon Church and Marriage Equality: http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB122186063716658279

Mother's Day, Family and Marriage - Butler West 33rd Ward - Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints - Cottonwood Heights, UT - May 11th, 2014

 

         Mother's Day...when I think of Mother's Day I think of a celebration of all Mother's regardless of their gender, sexuality, nationality, past or present. I experienced some of that here in the final talk, but the first talk left a bad taste since the legal expression of it has been witnessed in the world today in places like Uganda and Russia...

      First, for new readers I am an ex-Mormon. This is largely due to my disagreements with doctrine and the past of the Holy Books and history of the faith and the fact that the Supernatural is unknown and cannot be tested so I cannot by the very nature of it believe in the supernatural (same reason I'm not part of any religion outside of Unitarian Universalism really). I'll go into more detail as I talk about the service.

     The service began with a song from the old hymn, which was pretty and after the Bishop made the opening remarks and a woman did the opening prayer.

   After was another song and finally the first talk.

     The first talk started out okay (the man thanked all the women in his life and who he admired in the congregation), it could have easily continued on the theme of humanism and still remained just...instead it used Cicero to argue for the Nuclear family and put Cicero in agreement with conservative religion. The man than tied the talk into how other families are against God's plan (implying divorced, gay, lesbian and queer couples are bringing about the end and second coming). I hadn't heard that much implied hate since visiting the Muslim Association of Olympia, Mars Hill and Calvary Chapel...

    What does attacking different families actually do? I agree that marriage is good for society, it is one reason I support Gay Marriage. Marriage promotes stability and acceptance and connects us all together. It recognizes the love a couple shares and with it the community who would be there anyway will help raise the child. Nothing is gained and only harm is given when LGBTQ families are attacked and their children taken from them.

    The argument against these relationships hinges on arguments from authority. The weakest of the arguments since it says nothing for the content of the argument which is usually always circular in nature. It is right because it is right, basically.

     After was another song and finally the last talk which was more more inclusive. The woman who spoke recognized all the women in her life and how important motherhood is. Except for her mentioning Satan destroying the Kingdom of God on Earth if people don't stay righteous at the beginning (Red Flag for me with any religion - see the ones I mentioned above), it was a good talk. It was personal stories of her life as a mother and growing up with an adopted mother. The message was nearly universal except for defining women purely by their sex which happened once during the talk.

     Today was one reason I don't like visiting religions with a conservative bent...because it is never just kept in the group, it is brought out into law that seeks to criminalize or separate those who are different. Religions and groups that I connect to do not seek to tear apart families that differ in gender or sex, nor do they seek to destroy "Traditional families," (The 1950's Nuclear Family ideal). All are welcome, which is one thing I admire so much about secular humanism. It gives the freedom for each person to worship and live as they will without infringing on their freedom. The golden rule of "Do no harm," is lived in practice and all families are recognized. I hope this can happen worldwide for there is so far yet to go.

    A religion has every right to live by its own rules as long as those rules do not infringe upon another's well being, love and happiness. For it is in that legalism that love and justice die replaced by a religious form of tyranny. 

Capital Church - Salt Lake City, UT - May 3rd, 2014

 

      It has been a while since I have visited an evangelical church...and this one definitely had a similar feel to Eastridge Church and Meadow Creek Chapel. I mean this in regards to the aesthetics, the church like the website is clean and polished and very corporate/concert feeling. This was made greater by the pastors books being sold at the entrance (generally a red flag for me - Hello Mars Hill) and a hip cafe that sold coffee to the congregants.  

    There were some great differences this time though, first it was easy to be invisible. Which I appreciated. It made it possible to leave early when I had to catch my bus, and to fully experience the great Christian rock concert music. Which a question I have for believers. 

   Is the modern Christian rock of today in Churches meant to be like the psalms of old? There is a romantic feel to the music though thankfully some sorrow thrown in to a good degree. I always saw the psalms as people wrestling with themselves and God as that glass in which they could see themselves and their hopes and fears through. If Christian Rock is meant to be this (even if I'm not a big fan of it because of my love of the more traditional sounding stuff), I can appreciate it more.

     The second difference (since I wasn't around for the sermon so I don't know if they were conservative or liberal leaning) was that they were active. They had missions were they were doing more than building churches for believers...they were helping local areas improve housing and orphans have schooling. That was somethign great and actually living love in the world. Which I appreciated. Both Meadow Creek and Eastridge had way too much naval gazing and all events and money went just into that community...

    The third difference was diversity. There was a great variety of race and age which I hadn't really seen in many evangelical churches which have largely been white. 

    It was an interesting experience, and definitely not what I was expecting.

 

Easter Day - Community of Grace Presbyterian Church - Sandy, UT - April 20th, 2014

       What an amazing way to spend Easter day, and it wasn't even purposeful. I had meant to take a bus downtown to catch First Presbyterian Church and First United Methodist Church in downtown Salt Lake City, but it turns out the busses aren't running today. I did manage to get back to my car before 11am though and looked up a service that would be occurring around that time from a Church I hadn't attended (or denomination I hadn't visited yet for Holy Week).

 

      Community of Grace Presbyterian Church is a medium sized congregation who has a lot of energy. One of the first things I noticed when the service began was how common call and responses were...it was the most outward passion I've seen in a Christian community in a long time. 

    As for the look of the church, the theme today was purple. Which is ironic a bit since Purple was the royalty of Rome but Christianity came to adopt as the nobility for Jesus. As far as I know it has no historical basis in Judaism, it comes directly from the world that ended up adopting the religion from the small sect of Jews who founded Christianity.

      The sermon itself had aspects of the High Church (which is shown in the colors throughout the Church too...I've never seen High Church symbolism adopted by the newer Christian sects only those that came out of the Reformation). The big difference that separated it, since the hymns were traditional hymns that are in any Traditional service with some modern hymns thrown in for good measure was the call and response. After the confession of sins and was the forgiveness of sins spoken by the pastor in Jesus's name. The beginning was beautiful since through the music and confession there were moments of silence taken which allowed great time for reflection. It didn't feel rushed.

      The sermon itself was "Rejoicing in the Graveyard" which was the story of Mary in John and how Jesus found her when she was mourning for him missing from the tomb. This was tied into the Christian theme of God finding us. He told the story of a baby his friend a fellow pastor had found who the mother had entrusted to the church since she was an addict. It was a powerful story but chance and the action or lack of action in regards to love...and our desire to be loved and safe.

     Given that I have no idea of Jesus was/is literal God for me the power in the story was that by being present with ourselves where we are the good and right action will come to us. When we allow ourselves to not be consumed but aware...our mind will lead us to right action if we give it the chance.

    The story of Easter reminds me of the power those who have died has on us too. I've heard stories of people seeing or hearing loved ones who have died. Whether it actually happened or not is beside the point, but many times it inspires the person to action. Just like it did with Mary and Apostles. Sadly, many times it takes someone dieing to realize how significant they were in our lives. I don't believe in any person or persons as God(s) but I do believe in the power we have to inspire one another and the power that sacrafice has in peoples' lives.

     The service ended with collection, three prayers...one beautifully sung by the pastor, one silent prayer and one where people called out communities and people in their thoughts. Finally it ended with the Lord's prayer and all the congregation holding hands with a call to live Christlike. It was powerful, and I do think I'll visit here again. 

     Have a very Happy Easter.

Tuesday of Holy Week - Saint James Episcopal Church - Cottonwood Heights, UT - April 15th, 2014

         What a great return to Saint James Episcopal Church...the last time I was here was during Ash Wednesday for a noon service. This time I got to talk to the priest at the beginning of the service as well as another member of the congregation.

    The church was draped with the colors of Holy week...Red. Red for the suffering and blood, the action of the Christian story.

      The service began at the Baptismal font, where there was the confession of sin before Kyrie within the service and the readings. I love the High Church service, it seems designed to create as much reflectiveness as possible outside of a Buddhist meditation.

    The readings dealt with the idea of the Trinity and the first reading was God becoming the Son of Man and later Paul's letter to the Corinthians where he says the priests and ritual and the non-believers and wisdom. It perfectly expresses my hangups surrounding the supernatural and faith. To those who belief what happened is apparent, but if not...than you aren't going to get it. This goes for any great claims for me that involve some sort of supernatural premise.

   This was contrasted with the reading of Jesus knowing about his death and saying he will be bringing all people too him...which is a pretty universalist Jesus, which is a contrast of no one knowing the Father except through him...it really showed why there are so many interpretations of who Jesus was.

    The sermon focused on Jesus and how he used the Bible to inspire his action. I liked how the priest related to us using it to live like Jesus did...to live as he did. This struck me as practical and how the good can be taken out of the Bible and how it can inspire right action (just as it can inspire bad), but how following the actions of Jesus's action...caring for the poor, calling out hypocrisy...these are things that do make a difference and how I am inspired by the story of Jesus Christ.

The Return Home - South Valley Unitarian Universalist Society - Salt Lake City, UT - April 13th, 2014

         I have been away too long and one thing I realized is that in a way I never left. My values have always been aligned with Unitarian Universalism and I guess up to that point it I've really come to recognize that. This realization will be reflected throughout my visit today, which was where it first hit me that my values align and that it is from this Unitarian Universalist base that I explore other faiths.

     Why is this the case? A good question considering I think that the community can be more active beyond environmentalism...that at least my visit here, I wanted to see more helping of the poor and hungry like I found with the Catholics and Episcopals (reason I plan to get involved with Episcopal communities besides being welcomed and finding it a good place for reflection and action).

    The reason is values and I think it gets down to the base reason of why religions exist...they exist to wrestle with our mortality and reasons for being alive. This is seen in the seven principles which are:
1) The inherent worth and dignity of every person.
2) Justice, equality and compassion in human relations.
3) Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregation.
4) A free and responsible search for truth and meaning.
5) The use of the democratic process in decision making in the congregation.
6) The goal of world community with peace, liberty and justice for all.
7) Respect for the interdependent web of life we are a part of.

     All of these things were reflected in the service. The pastor recognized Palm Sunday being celebrated elsewhere and honored those doing it, as well as incorporating the story into the theme of "Releasing from Life: Lessons from Near Death Experiences," which was the sermon and it was reflected in the music of Crosby, Stills and Nash, Indigo Girls and the hymns.

      The service began with welcoming and recognizing the inherent worth and dignity of every person in how all were welcome. An ex-Mormon lady who had greeted me at the front then shared her journey to the congregation. This I've found is almost universal in congregations and communities...stories of how the people arrived there and became a part of it.

     After a person in the community was recognized for making possible the church being run by solar panels. What churches do that? That is one thing I love about the Unitarians and the action in regards to trying to live in relation to everything on the earth rather than just taking or taking it for granted. 

 

       Next was the story for all ages, and after the children going to class. Than was the sermon on how the Saints found peace in facing death and how near death experiences change people. It was a good service and reminded me of how also, all religions and a lot of people are really looking for solace in whatever is they are doing and living. It was a powerful sermon. 

      The sermon ended with introductions, which at this point was where I put words to the feelings and reality of where the base of my search has come from this blog. From the Unitarian Universalist ethics and desire and search for truth and community with others.

    After I talked to some members of the congregation at went to the chapel where I honored those who are suffering. The chapel reminded me of my Mom's home where the symbols of people wrestling with their mortality...the symbols of religion covered the walls and were on altars with candles to illuminate silence. 

    For however long I am here in Utah, I look forward to making time to be active in the Unitarian Universalist, the Episcopal Community and continuing to visit other faiths and form connections as the journey continues. Today, was the metaphorical return home.

 

Discussion with Father Raphael - August 8th, 2011

      Have you ever had an overdue thing you've wanted to do, but it's taken forever to come together? This discussion was one of those moments for me. For at least a year now, this is a discussion I've been meaning to have. Father Raphael is a friend and one of the priests at the Catholic Newman Center at the University of Washington. One of his majors is philosophy and when he did a forum against Referendum 71 against Civil Unions becoming legal in Washington I came ready to ask questions and to hopefully help him see how going against Referendum 71 was unjust (since Gay couples deserve the respect and dignity straight couples receive). That day I learned a lot about Catholicism and made a friend (though neither of us was able to convince the other that our position was correct).

   After that day we pretty much had a rain check to meet up to talk philosophy at some point in the future. This was a rain check that finally came together today.

     The discussion began with a prayer for illumination to find truth.

      It began with questions. When it comes to philosophy, asking questions is one of the few things I'm good at. Being a philosopher is something that I wouldn't call myself, because that takes a lot of work and I have not done all the work to be one. If anything, I'm simply a person with questions seeking answers and truth (and stories).

    I asked first about the crucifixion and the issue of an evil act being done, and how it could be good? From there what we found was it was the reaction and intent behind the one experiencing the evil act (forgiveness, dying for sins) which came around not because of the act but in answer to the act. This was a distinction that we tackled first. The conclusion which ended being, just that: "Good can come out of Evil, but not because of the Evil."

    We then discussed the New and Old Testament a bit. Old Testament Father versus Jesus (Genocide done by or in name of Father, and forgiveness and non-murderous nature of Jesus versus the Eternal Torment or Reward Jesus offered in the text versus the Old Testament not explicitly talking about Heaven or Hell).

   I brought up the question, "How can infinite reward or punishment exist for finite acts and life? 
He answered that because of God's infinite goodness, a sin against Him, though finite from our perspective, takes on an infinite quality from an absolute perspective, since it is a sin against an infinite being. 

    We then discussed how we got to where we are (in relationship to religion). Father Raphael was raised Christian, but didn't become Catholic till much later in his life. It was when he was in college he halfway submitted to God on possibly pursuing the Priesthood (after completed PHD would be open to it) and eventually how the seed grew until he accepted it, even though it had never been an idea before. (I had asked how do you know when God is talking versus the mind?)

    I asked because...I have tested prayer before, and I did have an experience that made me a Theist (Agnostic Theist in the end), so I was wondering if there was a better way. Since I would like to take each religion on the basis of their claims and test the claims (Both Paul and Buddha said to test something before putting belief in it).

    We talked a little bit about how all faiths have similar core values but differ in their Thesis's on what it means to be a member (which was an argument against relativism I thought - which there are many since that philosophy doesn't hold). 

    I told my faith journey about being born and raised Mormon till I was 11, and then raised Unitarian Universalist after that. The searching that is a such a huge part of UUism is something that I still carry with me to this day.

    We then talked about relationship (in regards to God) since his sermon the day before had referenced the darkness that many believers have felt (Saint Tereza of the Flower felt near the end of her life that if she went with her feelings she would be an atheist) and how God is looking for true friendship (people who stick through the darkness of separation - in romantic relationship - when the strong romantic feelings aren't there all the time or are hard to feel). It was a great conversation. I don't know any couple who has not been in that place of drought within romantic relationship, and I know both my girlfriend and I have felt it at times too.

   Eventually it went too what I believe now. Right now, I think there is a lot I'm figuring out. I do believe in living love and respect for all though (which is constant growth and long way to go), and continuing to seek truth.

     I mentioned that part of the test for me in regards to religion is if two of my mentors who are an amazing gay couple would be accepted...since I've seen the goodness their relationship is built on, and the good that has come out of it.

    Father Raphael brought up that that is coming from my own definition of virtue and good (Versus the Abrahamic faiths which are by Revelation (God speaking). We talked about on that (I think it was earlier) what Revelation means.

   "If humans are imperfect, how does Revelation work?"
"God makes certain word is recorded as he intends it."

   Father Raphael also brought up Priests who don't follow Church teachings (not following what the Bible says in regards to gays having to live celebate, or being full of hate as many Protestant groups act towards gays). He mentioned that gays who do try to do this are often isolated from within their own communities (which is true and not right, but I think the Church in regards to this has not been good to the gay community for those who do not want to believers and want to be treated with respect as those who are).

      A conversation for another day would be questions about the Catholic Church (of which I have a lot of) in regards to transparency and the past, as well as gender issues in relationship to men's and women's role and Church leadership, as well as church verse state issues, but those are a conversation for another day. It was a great conversation and I am lucky to have had it and the friendship that helped facilitate it.